Lag Compensation kills CS2D
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CS2D General Lag Compensation kills CS2DSo here's a short video explaining it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EwaW2iz4iA
Without LC:
Low pingers play normally. Advantage over higher pings since high ping players have to predict movements instead of aiming normally and their packages still arrive later.With LC:
High pingers can aim normally instead of having to predict shots. Low pingers still clearly have an advantage since their packages arrive earlier.About 'wallbanging', I think DC has already explained it in simple terms:
DC has written
The "dying behind a wall"-scenario is NOT (!) a disadvantage for low ping players. If this happens it just means that a high ping player DID kill you in a LEGIT way but because of his latency it took longer until you received the notification of being killed. At the same time you did NOT manage to kill him in a legit way. Neither before NOR AFTER (!) he killed you. Because even if you kill him X ms AFTER he actually killed you, you will win and kill him in case his latency is X ms higher than yours. Lag compensation does not change that.
Thanks, it's not like we can spend 2 seconds and find the most popular video about LC which explains obvious things! You haven't read anything on this topic and researched LC for 2 minutes, now you think you understand it better than everyone
united seems to understand it way better than you do, Quattro. DC: "united seems to understand it way better than you do, user Quattro."
/topic
Zeik has writtenas it doesn't impact on low ping players
I whole-heartedly disagree. I've never been a fan of LC. Being wallbanged because someone wants to play on a server halfway across the world with over 250 ping, is not fair to me, and doesn't really improve their experience enough to justify it. But that's just my opinion.
That said, I don't see LC as killing CS2D either, but more of an attempt to save it. There just aren't enough players for everyone to have a populated server near them to play on. As much as I dislike LC, it serves a purpose here. So being enabled by default makes sense.
Honestly, I don't really care if it's enabled by default or not as long as we retain the ability to change it on our servers to suit our preference. If a high-pinger doesn't think the gameplay on my server is fair, they can feel free to rage-quit and find one closer to them.
Edit: I'll explain further
If LC has absolutely any impact on the outcome of a confrontation between two players, then that would guarentee that both parties are, in fact, impacted.
To claim that it did not effect one of them would also mean that it could not have effected the other. Thus you are claiming it does nothing at all.
So we have to conclude that if LC does anything, then it impacts everyone. A player's interpretation of that impact will certainly vary depending on ping. But to claim that it impacts one group of players and not another is an absolute impossibility.
edited 1×, last 24.07.17 02:17:25 am
There's a problem in a different scenario (running away from someone in a straight line to avoid melee combat) in Left4Dead:
https://www.l4dnation.com/general-discussion/lerp-guide-v2-3-4c/ has written
For infected, higher lerp values can often be useful, as survivors generally run away from SI. Usually a survivor is going to make sure he/she is just out of the tank's reach. But, if the tank is using high interpolation, he won't see the survivor start to move for an extra 100+ ms. When using lerps extremely high, such as 400 ms or 500 ms, this problem is exacerbated greatly. The same phenomenon occurs when other special infected scratch survivors.
Confogl blocks lerps higher than 100 ms for this reason.
Confogl blocks lerps higher than 100 ms for this reason.
Unrelated. There are no client-side interpolation settings. Secondly, if someone is in cover on his screen, then he obviously wasn't on the killer's screen when killed (due to network delay).
But what if he was actually no longer out of cover? What if he was safe and still got shot from behind the wall? Based on
mp_lagcompensationdivisor the hitbox is taken from a frame back in time based on player's ping. (side question: why is mp_lagcompensation in ms and not frames?) The accuracy of the reported player ping is very low and is updated rarely (every 2-5s idk). Consider following scenario: victim leaves cover for a short moment killer has a low ping (20ms), sees victim out of cover victim backs in cover, killer suddenly reports a high ping (150ms lag spike) killer starts shooting, server additionally compensates him for 130ms victim dies behind the wall, because the hitbox was computed to be 130ms longer out of cover killer has seen the victim for longer and has had more time to kill him due to a lag spikeHowever, this scenario has a solution: take the lowest lagger ping of the last few measurements.
I gotta agree with
Quattro. You all seem to think out of the handicapped player's position. And it's hard to do otherwise.Thinking upon the l4d chase problem: this is true for knife and shotgun engagements from the laggers perpective: Knife attacks will be compensated back in time for the lagger, so even if the low-pinger reacted and started running away, the hitbox will be made closer to the lagging chaser than the real positions are.
Same for shotun engages from cover around the corner. If victim stands in the open, sees the lagger moving out for the shot and starts reacting, then by the time the lagger shoots, Victim will be in cover on his screen, not yet in cover on Lagger's screen and the server will rewind Victim's movement to the frame when he first started reacting to the already delayed killer's movement. Result: lagger will land the shot because victim had less time to react and his hitbox was unfairly compensated for the shot.
We need more thought experiments for the corner cases.
Zeik has writtenWell.. the impact is that the game is more fair for high ping players, but it doesn't make the low ping players game more unfair.
I didn't say anything about fairness. You said LC doesn't impact low-ping players. I clearly showed how that's an impossibility.
If LC changes anything, then it impacts gameplay. You can't impact gameplay without it impacting everyone. Ping is irrelevant in that regard.
In regards to fairness, LC doesn't make the game more fair for everyone, it only serves to make it more equally unfair. Fairness is a balance for which you have to consider both perspectives. No matter how you look at it, that's still a negative impact on a low-pinger's experience, because it's a positive impact on the higher ping player's. You can't tip the balance one way without it effecting the other.
A lower-ping player gets updates from the server sooner, which means their perspective of real-time is more accurately represented. It's not their fault (or the server's) that it takes longer for another player to tell the server where they are or what they are shooting at. Changing that perspective to make it less accurate (by compensating for the higher ping player) also makes it less fair for them. There's no way around that.
This is why LC makes things 'more equally unfair' and does not make it 'more fair' at all.
The only way to improve fairness for you, is to lower your ping. If you want fair, start a LAN party.
edited 1×, last 24.07.17 04:15:59 am
You didn't give any argument against it other than "it's more fair for high ping players so it's more unfair for low ping players".
I can't even think how it would be noticeable at all to be killed by someone with higher ping than your unless he has more than 400ms of delay.
You can't think of how it would be noticable? It's harder to notice if you are the one with high ping, because the difference is an improvement. For the one with low ping the difference is as easy to spot as the sun mid-day in a desert. It's the difference between not getting hit at all, and getting one-shotted, when no bullets came near you.
DC has writtenTruly a programmer mindset. No wonders you can not understand me. I skip simple, obvious things and talk about LCs effect on gameplay experience while you are able to talk about the surface. only.
Since it's impossible to make you understand subtle things, think about this site as example http://www.lagcompensation.com
and tell me, all these players who abuse lag compensation in
FPS games to gain advantage are non existent? They are all incorrect and you are correct?
Finally a person who put thought into it. What you wrote has less impact on RTS games, but in CS2D, these moments happen every second so the winner is the one who abuses LC better. There are games where everyone use third party programs to artificially lag and they do stupid stuff like never stop moving to reduce their disadvantage and still be able to abuse LC. If DC thinks this is the type of gameplay everyone loves, have fun developing a dead game.
Edit: @
VaiN: that's what I'm trying to tell everyone but it seems majority can not see anything unless it's as obvious as 400ms delay in 2D. It's like telling silvers that they must stop before shooting and they're like "what the differece u stpd". 
edited 2×, last 24.07.17 11:59:48 am
As a solution I think server owners need to be educated about what it does, instead of just making it 0 by default. If you're playing on a serious server, it will be disabled.
If you're not, what is the point? It makes excellent sense to be put into international servers. If you do not like it, make your own.
Just my 2 cents.
DC: I know Quattro he will never stop until you're too tired to reply just ignore
Andrez: Quattro is right, though. It's used to make the game fair yet is still a disadvantage towards players with normal ping that would have a different experience than playing on a server with or without LC.