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old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

DC
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@user Apache uwu: No, CS2D uses (when sticking to the terms from that wiki page) a server sided time rewinding approach for the player positions. The wiki article even mentions the effect which led to this thread:
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But the price is an aggravation of the effects of latency when a player is under fire: not only does their own latency play a part, but their attacker's too. In many situations this is not noticeable, but players who have just taken cover will notice that they carry on receiving damage/death messages from the server for longer than their own latency can justify. This can lead more often to the (false) impression that they were shot through cover and the (not entirely inaccurate) impression of "laggy hitboxes"


You can also see that the term wall-banging is wrong and misleading in this context because you can never shoot through walls in CS2D. It just looks like you can because of the old "lag compensated" player positions which are used for the hit calculations.

CS2D actually gives you much control over the lag compensation. Again: Just take a look at cs2d cmd mp_lagcompensation for an explanation. I'm currently considering to lower the default value for this setting from 5 to 3 anyway (which would still fully compensate pings up to 300 - which should be enough).

Don't forget this though: It just looks like it's unfair but it's actually quite fair. The point is that everything happens delayed because of the high pings. The guy with the high ping DID hit you BEFORE you reached cover. It just took longer for his packets to arrive and that's why YOU think that you already were behind cover at that point. That's not true though.
edited 1×, last 03.06.14 06:11:06 pm

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

cortz
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DC takes it away with that explanation

I support changing the default value to 3 since most people don't play in servers that give higher than 300 ping

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Apache uwu
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@user DC: Yeah I know cs2d rewinds time, I just added that it also uses extrapolation for smoothing effects (so it doesn't look as laggy). It's when you completely lose connection to the server, where players continue moving in the same direction.

Some players with bad ping choppily move across the map and make it more difficult for other players to get a shot on them. This is because most server owners (including myself) disable cs2d cmd mp_trace.

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Jurgen-NL
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everyone needs to calm down with the provoking and insults :p

i just dont get why i was hit standing behind a wall quietly and still for over 10-20 seconds in de_dust with 20-30ping vs 20-30ping and my opponent clearly sees me not behind the wall,
and i clearly see myself correctly behind the wall and i get killed...

i mean thats like im kept in an illusion that im safe while im not

and maybe the title is wrongly put my apoligizes

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

C0nan
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I have the same problem, but i think there is solution:
With new version cs2d 1.2.5? - Lag compensation will be automaticly reduced to 0, and If someone want's to have lag compensation, he will have to turn it ON. With this thing not many people will change it.

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Quattro
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user DC has written
Don't forget this though: It just looks like it's unfair but it's actually quite fair. The point is that everything happens delayed because of the high pings. The guy with the high ping DID hit you BEFORE you reached cover. It just took longer for his packets to arrive and that's why YOU think that you already were behind cover at that point. That's not true though.


I had to bump, this logic is so wrong. Sorry DC, but you have a wrong idea on how online game works. If I have low ping, it means my gameplay must be smooth and accurate. If I see something happening on screen, I must be able to react to it and act accordingly.

Saying that this is unfair is nonsensical.

The guy with a high ping shouldn't play at all, and if he still wants to play on unplayable server then go ahead and predict your actions! But instead, you say that it is fair to force everyone to predict actions. Everyone must play in unplayable conditions to be fair, yet low ping player will own a high pinger anyway.

Your logic is wrong and that's why majority of players left when LC was implemented in game. Imagine if a game like moomoo.io enabled LC so chineese would "stand a chance" in EU servers? The game would be desolated in a week because it would be broken.

LC should be set to 0 by default so there are no mistakes made by those who don't know what it is.

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Andrez
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Quattro is just an annoying fool. Hated in whole PCS

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Your logic is wrong and that's why majority of players left when LC was implemented in game


Talking about logic with such nonsense...

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Sparty
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user Quattro has written
Sorry DC, but you have a wrong idea on how online game works


Shit..son your telling someone who dedicate his hard work and has knowledge to make online games, thats messed up..

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Quattro
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user Andrez has written
Quattro is just an annoying fool. Hated in whole PCS


Since PCS are a bunch of illiterates like yourself, I take that as a compliment.

@Sparty
That doesn't mean he's always right. CS2D is dead and I am pointing out what I believe is the reason

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

SANTER
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you are right @user Jurgen-NL: , I played some years in servers from other countries and knew very well how to play with high ping, we were few that we knew to play like this, and when the LC released it was obvious its double damage(real dmg and LC dmg), the worst thing of all was that many servers where he played it began to use and it was very bizarre to play. Summarizing: The LC was created to players without hands


ajjajaja this post is old gg quattro
edited 1×, last 20.07.17 09:44:37 pm

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Quattro
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@SANTER Yeah like 2 years old
I loved playing with high ping too on TGV servers. Good times... Kill Control members were dominating the servers with 200+ latency back in those days. Masters of ping.

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

DC
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Lag compensation should not lead to ANY disadvantage for low ping players. We all agree here. I do, you do, we do. No point in discussing that. In case it is a disadvantage then it's probably a bug or you just imagine it.

And once again: The "dying behind a wall"-scenario is NOT (!) a disadvantage for low ping players. If this happens it just means that a high ping player DID kill you in a LEGIT way but because of his latency it took longer until you received the notification of being killed. At the same time you did NOT manage to kill him in a legit way. Neither before NOR AFTER (!) he killed you. Because even if you kill him X ms AFTER he actually killed you, you will win and kill him in case his latency is X ms higher than yours. Lag compensation does not change that.

If you don't like the lag compensation there are two settings for tweaking:
cs2d cmd mp_lagcompensation and cs2d cmd mp_lagcompensationdivisor (lol I guess the higher FPS user SQ introduced will mess this up in a horrible way! oh oh!)

If you don't like playing against high ping players there also is cs2d cmd mp_pinglimit

Problem solved. You're welcome

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

xsiN
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DC is right on this one
Even though a few high ping players manage to kill me somehow I can still back that up by killing them twice next round

Lag compensation has never bothered me. Not now at 50ping nor before when I had 200ping.

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Quattro
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DC, I know you made it possible to revert to normal. But you still don't understand why LC shouldn't take priority over original. You clearly haven't tested it thoroughly. 4 points:

1st, dying behind wall
It's not fair. You forget to look at both sides. You make it "fair" for the ones with bad ping, (or the ones who udp flood their own routers). But the player who is supposed to have a normal game is playing a broken game. He reacts to being hit once and goes away into cover. How is it fair for him, that he reacted instantly but will die anyway?

2nd, reaction time
It doesn't require a wall to spoil the game. If lagger is coming towards you, you can try to react and start avoiding his bullets. But it's pointless because lagger is still shooting your previous location while you were standing still on his screen.

3d, hit registration
There used to be laggers with low ping hard to hit, but LC doesn't fix this. They are still very hard to hit and most of the bullets don't register while they aim at a steady target.

4th. logic?
LC in no way makes the game fair, low ping player will still hit laggers faster, yet you sacrifice whole gameplay for that meaningless difference because a bunch (literally a bunch, 5-10 players) from other side of the world demand fairness


It is impossible to make the game fair.

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Yates
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@user Quattro: Has PCS or any competitive server ever lowered the ping limit or turned of LC?

If not I don't think you should be blaming the LC. If you have 10 ping and start shooting someone with 300 ping you both receive packages from server about the other player late. You see him standing somewhere where he is not, but the same goes for that player, you are also somewhere you are not on his screen because he also receives packages late == FAIR

The problem with this issue is that if you are standing in the same spot for any period of time the player who is lagging can see you before you see them IF you still don't move AFTER they received your position. They receive your position late and start to send theirs but also start shooting you in the meantime. On their screen they have already wasted 5 mags on you - you're dead - but because of their ping the sever (and you) don't know this after a period of time which results in you "suddenly" dying.

It can seem unfair and I do agree with you 100% that it's an issue but this is how it works.

But to get back to my first point don't blame DC or LC for this - blame the server owners that want to have a popular server full of 300 ping players ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They need to understand that this is an issue and limit the max ping, otherwise we'll be here for a few more years having a pointless discussion.

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Quattro
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@Yates It's not about blaming, I think it is an interesting CS2D topic to discuss. It's more intelligent to talk about this than favorite skins.

You understand LC effect on game perfectly, it removes aiming prediction but movement trails behind. So it creates a game of guessing with situations where you can not react and change outcome even if you see enemy coming. The one who abuses it more wins. It's just not fair to call it fair. And what bothers me, there won't be many new players who will like to play in these conditions. Personally, I just quit if there are too many players with pings higher than 50 on server. Though servers are usually empty anyway

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Yates
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@user Quattro: Maybe we can subconsciously sort people by adding a flag before each server. This way there will be a little less players on servers they are not supposed to be - let's face it, if you join a server and you like it you will want to rejoin after you timeout, making someone join other servers instead close to their location would potentially solve the (soon to come, hopefully) flood of players that lag.

I don't know what the actual default ping limit is now, but I'm hoping it's not more than 200? If it's higher we possibly need to lower it by default because it seems like server owners don't touch it.

You could also convince server hosters to lower it even further during tournaments. A lagger doesn't (and shouldn't) want to play against someone with no lag, and the other way round.

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Quattro
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If I remember correctly, people didn't have any problems when some servers had lc added in titles to test lua version. They could just choose to not play there. This whole mess started when it got integrated and now there is no indication if it's on or off. Maybe this would solve something because I remember hoster of russian servers didn't even know that mp_lagcompensation command existed

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Andrez
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LC has improved CS2D enormously.

We were able to play worlwide, with equal pings.

For example, South americans like brazileans and argentinean clans facing european clans and north american ones.

We play with Russians, etc etc etc...

CS2D would be really inactive at this point. Years ago we added LC for a reason, even when it wasnt even implemented in game.


Look at this match from around 2 weeks ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD0_W90WP7Q

How would it be possible to have such a match: argentineans vs africans/europeans?

@user DC:

Enaugh said. Just look at how contradictory is the title with these facts.

old Re: Lag Compensation kills CS2D

Quattro
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It would be possible if players like you didn't cry that they can't hit anything instead of learning how to play with high ping.


"Enaugh said. Just look at how contradictory is the title with these facts."

Your previous sentence:

"CS2D would be really inactive at this point. Years ago we added LC for a reason, even when it wasnt even implemented in game."

Now open CS2D, check the serverlist and see that the only contradictory guy here is you

You like LC just because you are bad with high ping.
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