English Civilian drone flights pushed in U.S.

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23.03.12 09:14:22 pm
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Yates
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user dENd has written:
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Drones are a bad idea since unlike Human error they cant fix it since they cant improvise.

It is possible.
23.03.12 09:23:23 pm
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dENd
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Depends on the "error" still i would rather trust a human (Female preferred) than a drone/robot/cyborg or whatever.
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23.03.12 10:33:14 pm
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Mc Leaf
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user Doberman has written:
Obviously, you're a fucking idiot.

Obviously you can bugger me...

user Doberman has written:
DIRECT QUOTE FROM ARTICLE - DATED 2007: "Merseyside police are using the "spy drone", fitted with CCTV cameras, mainly for tackling anti-social behaviour and public disorder."

The only time you're ever going to be scared of this (or disagree with this) is if you have something to hide or you're a criminal.

I guess you know the word "pretext"...

I've already watched the political progress und had many political discussions when you still have shitten in your diapers. The arguments on the one hand and the really intentions on the other are always nearly the same.

Whatever... let's just talk about that in 10-15 years and lets see where all that has led to. I'm tired of explaining people how that fucking system works.
user DC has written:
I'm actually working on Stranded III now with highest priority even though I said that I planned to release the next CC update first.
23.03.12 10:35:54 pm
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Yates
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user Mc Leaf has written:
I'm tired of explaining people how that fucking system works.

In fact I'm quite interested, if you don't mind of course.
23.03.12 10:48:54 pm
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Mc Leaf
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user Yates has written:
user Mc Leaf has written:
I'm tired of explaining people how that fucking system works.

In fact I'm quite interested, if you don't mind of course.

It would just take too long...

You can't tell people in five minutes your hole worldview, experiences, arguments and so on.

I just can advise to read newspaper, books and make your own thoughts about the political and economical system and already being watchful for what is going on in the world.
user DC has written:
I'm actually working on Stranded III now with highest priority even though I said that I planned to release the next CC update first.
23.03.12 11:19:06 pm
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dENd
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user Mc Leaf
*Reads newspaper*
Crap about politics,some people died out of hunger,and then the crosswords plus the In Memorial pages...

*Asks for the best book*
F that shit
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24.03.12 12:20:01 pm
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Doberman
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user Mc Leaf has written:
Obviously you can bugger me

Sorry, I don't do anal. I'm sure there are many male prostitutes which can fulfill your enjoyment though.

user Mc Leaf has written:
I guess you know the word "pretext"

LOLNOPE.

user Mc Leaf has written:
I've already watched the political progress und had many political discussions when you still have shitten in your diapers.

Unfortunately, that isn't one of them.

user Mc Leaf has written:
The arguments on the one hand and the really intentions on the other are always nearly the same.


NO STOP IT MCLEAF, IT'S HURTING ME TOO MUCH. NO PLEASE STOP OH GOD, OH GOD AAAAAAAAARGH!

user Mc Leaf has written:
Whatever... let's just talk about that in 10-15 years and lets see where all that has led to.

Reduced crime? catching potential criminals? you make it sound like catching bad people is a BAD THING.

While we're at it. Let's just go ahead and release all the paedophiles and murderers.

user Mc Leaf has written:
I'm tired of explaining people how that fucking system works.

I'm tired of you being a retard.
25.03.12 08:12:25 am
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Mc Leaf
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Okay, dude... There are two possibilities now:

Trolling around and lets look, how much, ingenious and mind blowing phrases we can get and throw at each other (which surely would be quite funny, too)...

...or bringing some arguments and facts in the discussion (see below), so everybody can learn from each other and leave the discussion with some maybe useful thoughts. Because it is quite obviously, that one just can't convince the other one, since changing a worldview or one's opinion is a progress which sometimes can take up to years (or maybe even never happens). But bringing facts can result in huge wall of text unfortunately...

user Yates has written:
In fact I'm quite interested, if you don't mind of course.

So, I thought about it...

In many talk shows you can hear politicians discussing about criminality and violence. There are always nearly the same arguments and patterns of thinking:

On the one hand there are the common points of view: "Oh, look! A ter*rorist att*ack again. Or look, how the people go out marauding through the streets again and smashing windows and burning cars again!". Okay, first of all that is a simple fact. But next you hear something like: "Oh, yeah! Maybe we should keep those people under surveillance so we can track and arrest them!"

On the other hand you hear them never or extremly rarely speaking about the causes, the reasons which make people going violent and why do they acting so as they do. For example it is stastistical proven that there is a correlation between the probability of being or getting criminal in lifetime on the one hand, and the (maybe very low) social status or somebody's (maybe harsh) fate on the hand. Of course it also depends a little bit of what is being declared as criminal (there's much kind of economic criminality and corruption in the upper classes).

So... about the first point there is to say, that you just can't completely take hole parts of the society under control. Monitoring a particular area only shifts the problems into another. So if you monitor all the airports, no events will be prevented, since they also can be perpetrated in trains (Madrid), subways (London) or anywhere else. The problem is not solved, but it is only shifted, leading eventually to the insight that you in fact would have to monitor all areas of public life, which would by definition nothing more than a totalitarian surveillance state. This is simply the logical consequence of a political view, which does not question the causes of problems, but requires them as almost "god-given", so one can only reply with a final total surveillance of all citizens. By the way already arresting people results in significant costs for the hole society, and even more so investing additional funds in the whole technology for surveillance techniques, which could be better have spent to hospitals, schools and other things increasing the general welfare (which would also decrease the crime rate). And many examples of already implemented elements of a surveillance state can be found in Wikipedia or on the web. These fu**ing drones are just another small piece of the puzzle here.

And just like the frog in the water, which doesn't notice, when the temperature rises slowly until it finally croaked, just as humanity maybe doesn't realizes when around them it is coming up to a totalitarian police state, whose political leadership maybe already has reversed itself in a dictatorial regime (or tends to). And, yeah... who watches the watchmen, by the way? Who decides about right and wrong? You think we're living in a democracy? Lol... but that would go offtopic now.

At least there is to say, that, of course, I don't want (because I just can't) convince anybody. I brought some thoughts and facts and you can find many arguments through the entire web. I'm quite sure to have nearly heard all of them, several times and in different variations. So I finally weighed them by myself and formed my own opinion. And that is what I recommend to anyone else, regardless of what opinion he ultimately makes.

Oh... there is some of those arguments again...:

user Doberman has written:
Reduced crime? catching potential criminals? you make it sound like catching bad people is a BAD THING.

No, crime must be punished, clearly. But obviously in that case (monitoring of various areas) you can just watch the crime scene, but you can't prevent the criminal act itself. People usually have their motivation and their reasons for a (intentional) criminal act. No matter how high safety precautions are, people will allways search for security gaps (which in fact exists always) or they choose different locations or points in time for their actions. Therefore one has to analyze what drives people being criminal and fight those causes (poverty, suppression or exclusion from society for example). Nobody was born a criminal, but human behavior is often made by the man-made social conditions itself again.
user DC has written:
I'm actually working on Stranded III now with highest priority even though I said that I planned to release the next CC update first.
25.03.12 09:04:59 am
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Sync
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@user Mc Leaf:
That's pretty much what I've wanted to explain to these people (but didn't bother because like you said, they won't listen).

Thank you.
25.03.12 01:50:43 pm
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Doberman
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user Mc Leaf has written:
WALL OF FUCKING TEXT

HOLY FUCKING SHIT.

user Mc Leaf has written:
No, crime must be punished, clearly.

*Whew* Thank God for that.

user Mc Leaf has written:
But obviously in that case (monitoring of various areas) you can just watch the crime scene, but you can't prevent the criminal act itself.

The whole point is that it could. Or at least be a worthy cause when using it.

user Mc Leaf has written:
People usually have their motivation and their reasons for a (intentional) criminal act.

REALLY? THAT SOUNDS AMAZING. I'VE NEVER HEARD THIS ONE BEFORE.

user Mc Leaf has written:
No matter how high safety precautions are, people will allways search for security gaps (which in fact exists always) or they choose different locations or points in time for their actions.

Yeah, that sounds easy. What's a criminal going to do? Use a ultra XXX360L33THaxorZ on the drone?

user Mc Leaf has written:
Therefore one has to analyze what drives people being criminal and fight those causes (poverty, suppression or exclusion from society for example).

Therefore, one has to analyze what the FUCK THIS HAS TO DO WITH MONITORING AREAS FOR CRIMINAL ACTIVITY?

user Mc Leaf has written:
Nobody was born a criminal, but human behavior is often made by the man-made social conditions itself again.

I'VE SERIOUSLY NEVER HEARD OF THIS ONE.
25.03.12 06:14:43 pm
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Mc Leaf
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user Doberman has written:
user Mc Leaf has written:
WALL OF FUCKING TEXT
HOLY FUCKING SHIT.

You said it... But this is nothing compared to writing huge articles that some people in various other forums do...

(and here's another one )

user Doberman has written:
user Mc Leaf has written:
But obviously in that case (monitoring of various areas) you can just watch the crime scene, but you can't prevent the criminal act itself.
The whole point is that it could. Or at least be a worthy cause when using it.

Okay, I guess you're not that wrong here. Keeping an area under surveillance may decrease the probability of having criminal actions there. But as I said, it is limited to those areas and justs shifts the problem, so you would have to expand and diversify the hole surveillance system also to all other areas.

Unfortunately, there are some attemps even to expand the monitoring to everybody's own home and privacy...

Do you have something to hide about, when you're fucking your wife or having some embarrassing parties with your friends...?! So... in that case we can calm you down. Because our highly advanced software is able to conceal certain body parts like genitals or faces. So nothing to worry about! We just want to get sure, that you're not planning some crime, maybe constructing a b0mb or doing other criminal things we just aren't up to know yet.

And about monitoring public places again... People start to behave abnormally, once as they have the feeling of being watched: "Oh, I have a big fat bogy in my nose... but... damn! Won't pick that out just in front of that camera there..." or maybe they have an itching asshole and are already walking like daft chicken, because they don't want to scratch their ass. Both could be handled as 'scandalization' in some areas. These objections are just ridiculous you say...? Okay, maybe, but read a short list of prohibitions in singapore to get an idea of how a system can have quite similar restrictions of public life:

http://www.articlerich.com/Article/15-Tips-to-Avoid-Prohibition-in-Singapore-/219969

And in my opinion it is not that far from forbidding pick one's nose or scratching the ass (even if you just have to pay 5 or 10 dollars for that), especially in popular tourist destinations.

user Doberman has written:
REALLY? THAT SOUNDS AMAZING. I'VE NEVER HEARD THIS ONE BEFORE.

I guess this was meant to be ironical...

user Doberman has written:
Yeah, that sounds easy. What's a criminal going to do? Use a ultra XXX360L33THaxorZ on the drone?

You can hide (in a blind angle, behind other object etc.) or mask yourself (scarf, sunglasses, facial mask...), escaping from the crime scene without getting busted or identified, you can shoot drones (like terr0rists in war zones do), change time and place for a criminal act or whatever...
It is not the point, which techniques finally are used to deal with a drone or all the other systems of surveillance. There simply are enough possibilities so you never have complete safety in the world even if you watch people while taking a shit or jerking off...

If you want to rob a bank or murder somebody, do you care about the security system and discard your plans? No, rather not. Rather you reconsider your plans and try to knock out a security system, thus the hole thing will be just a little bit harder, but not impossible. And in my opinion already having the plan itself is bad enough, what should also be avoided (by analyzing and averting the causes of crime, as I already said).

user Doberman has written:
Therefore, one has to analyze what the FUCK THIS HAS TO DO WITH MONITORING AREAS FOR CRIMINAL ACTIVITY?

Criminal activities just have causes... >

And monitoring an event does not prevent the event itself, as already said. Every video recording of any crime is a most powerful evidence for that. After having some recording you have a slightly better chance for tracking a criminal, and before that you have a slightly lower chance of having a criminal action just in front of the camera. But that's it.

I would rather like to see my hard-earned money being spent in schools, hospitals social projects and those things, which makes life more livable. That would also highly decrease the probability of crime, since people nearly have no reasons acting criminal when everything is fine around them and there's nothing to worry about.

user Doberman has written:
user Mc Leaf has written:
Nobody was born a criminal, but human behavior is often made by the man-made social conditions itself again.

I'VE SERIOUSLY NEVER HEARD OF THIS ONE.

This is a pretty good example for an argument well known as 'argumentum ad ignorantiam': Because you've never heard of it, it just must be wrong. But I'm not willing to cititate and analyze tons of statistical stuff and essays about that topic. See web or the relevant literature for that.
user DC has written:
I'm actually working on Stranded III now with highest priority even though I said that I planned to release the next CC update first.
25.03.12 06:25:24 pm
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Yates
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Seriously, TL;DR
25.03.12 10:46:44 pm
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Doberman
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user Mc Leaf has written:
You said it... But this is nothing compared to writing huge articles that some people in various other forums do

But Sir, this isn't another forum.

user Mc Leaf has written:
MORE WALL OF TEXT

Too Long, Didn't read.

user Mc Leaf has written:
I guess this was meant to be ironical

Sorry, I'm not that good at ironing.

user Mc Leaf has written:
You can hide or mask yourself (scarf, sunglasses, facial mask...), escaping from the crime scene without getting busted or identified

Oh, I'm sure people could. I wouldn't count on people lasting very long doing that though.

user Mc Leaf has written:
you can shoot drones (like terr0rists in war zones do)

Pfft.

As if anybody would want to start firing and attracting a lot of attention to bring down something like that.

user Mc Leaf has written:
change time and place for a criminal act or whatever

The whole point is that you would never know when those drones would be up. How would you know they're up in the morning? or afternoon? or night? it could be random.

user Mc Leaf has written:
There simply are enough possibilities so you never have complete safety in the world even if you watch people while taking a shit or jerking off

LET'S STOP TRYING TO PREVENT THINGS.

user Mc Leaf has written:
If you want to rob a bank or murder somebody

You seem to know a lot about this shit. Do you murder people and rob banks by any chance?

user Mc Leaf has written:
MORE WALLS OF TEXT

ASGHFASDHGAHGDSJHFADJASDJ!

user Mc Leaf has written:
I would rather like to see my hard-earned money being spent in schools, hospitals social projects and those things, which makes life more livable.

You evidently haven't been to Britain.

user Mc Leaf has written:
lolwikipedia

SORRY. MY SARCASM ISN'T WORKING TOO GOOD THIS YEAR. I SHOULD PRACTICE MORE.

user Yates has written:
Seriously, TL;DR

For some reason. I'm inclined to agree with this. I COULDN'T IMAGINE WHY.
26.03.12 02:33:08 am
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Mc Leaf
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user Doberman has written:
But Sir, this isn't another forum.

But obviously it is in fact at least a forum and not some kind of chat...

But of course, it is none of those forums about politics, religion or philosophy, therefore posts shouldn't get too long...

user Doberman has written:
Sorry, I'm not that good at ironing.

Okay, then I guess you agreed in that point.

user Doberman has written:
As if anybody would want to start firing and attracting a lot of attention to bring down something like that.

That of course depends always on the situation...

Running with a rocket launcher through the inner city of london would of course attracting a lot of attention (but less in war zones), so you're better advised to hide or something else (apart from just don't behaving criminal, which is another option of course).

user Doberman has written:
The whole point is that you would never know when those drones would be up. How would you know they're up in the morning? or afternoon? or night? it could be random.

Clearly. There's always some kind of risk. But in the regular case it is just needed to watch the sky.

user Doberman has written:
You seem to know a lot about this shit. Do you murder people and rob banks by any chance?

Maybe, who knows...?

Everyone is a suspect, isn't it?

user Doberman has written:
ASGHFASDHGAHGDSJHFADJASDJ!

Some kind of secret code? Are you planing some terr0rist att4ck? Maybe I should send that to the CIA so they can decode that.

user Doberman has written:
You evidently haven't been to Britain.

Yeah, having good reasons why.

Spoiler >


user Doberman has written:
user Yates has written:
Seriously, TL;DR

For some reason. I'm inclined to agree with this. I COULDN'T IMAGINE WHY.

I tell you: That is simply some kind of immunization strategy to keep up one's own opinion and protect it from other different point of views...

But I don't really care about that.

As I already said: Make your own opinion dude, but never stop watching what is going on in the world and giving thoughts to those things.
user DC has written:
I'm actually working on Stranded III now with highest priority even though I said that I planned to release the next CC update first.
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