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Next December

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Re: Next December

JamppaCK
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21.01.08 10:32:57 pm

It is little bit hard to translate of Finnish bible to in English. Becouse there has been said much of things little bit different way. No I didn't know that.
I thought they are trying to search truth so people would believe them either than the Gods word.
Yes of course every body are able to get in paradise but do everyone get in there? it is a next step.

I ment something like you said but I didn't know how to explain. (I mean that buddhism)

But you seemed to succeed well.

It will become crystal clear for all of you someday in future. Propably about 5 years you all undrestand.

By the way, what means Amd? And q.e.d.?

Re: Next December

JTK
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21.01.08 10:36:20 pm

When a one man arise up his power and he gets many nations to be united. And When He Procleim He is a God. At Least Then you should open the bible. and find out who he really is.. Many peoples Saing he is Great man.. But Truth is he is anti-christ. He has the power to get fall a fire on a heaven..

Re: Next December

HW
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21.01.08 10:44:31 pm

JamppaCK has written

Jesus said to his disciples, I am the truth the way the life. Only believing on me is allowed to get in Heaven.

Just because some guy spoke of himself as holy doesn't mean he's right. If I recollect correctly, Hitler said some similiar stuff about himself...

And yes: If you insist on Christianity or any random religion being the only truth, a (flame-)war between all the various religions is exactly what you ultimatively achieve.

Dicker has written

Buddha is not a God. He is just the founder of the Buddhism and the buddhistic people believe in their salvation based on their very own actions with no help of an external entity.

You are right that he's not a god, but he isn't just the founder of the religion. According to Buddhist belief, he is an enlightened spirit (bodhisattva), i.e. his position is higher than that of a god. (Buddhist gods are still bound to the rules of infinite reincarnation and karma, while bodhisattva aren't)

JamppaCK has written

How is able to know there is only one God?
blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda

Whatever you tried to explain doesn't give any answers to your question.

JamppaCK has written

In future you will see things you cant explain. When someting bad happens you blame some scientist and also some weather scientist. Becouse they seemed to be wrong.

Let's assume that sience will fail at some random point of time. When that is the case, one could predict that there will be two kinds of people to blame scientists:

The dumb and stupid folk, for they are simply too dumb and stupid to look for their own flaws

The scientists themselves, for they know that they are not perfect and that they could never achieve a teaching of ultimate correctness
Besides, such a catastrophe you describe (whatever that catastrophe would be) woudln't neccessarily make people convert to Christianism. They would most probably stay at whatever faith they had before, and if they convert, they have a lot of options to convert to, not only Christianity.
For me personally, a global and lethal catastrophe actually wouldn't change any of my views, it would probably only strengthen my nihilist assumptions.

JamppaCK has written

Sorry but have messed three different thigns HW

It is not me who messed things up but you who seemed to have misunderstood me.
Allah is just the arabic word for "God". And after all, it is basically the same god that is worshipped in Islam, Christianity and Jewish religion. (both Islam and Christianity have their roots in Judaism)

Aside from that, my actual question back then was why you thought Christianity would be more true than any other religion. With your little story you have answered that question, but that is your personal experience then. In a world of approximately six billion people, stories like this happen all the time to various people, independent of whatever religion is concerned there.

JamppaCK has written

I would recommend you some movie which would be really good to watch. I don't know exactly right translation for it but it is "The Lost World" There is 3 parts of that movie already and 4 and 5 part is coming in future I think.

A damn pathetic fool who makes up his religious opinion based on movies and/or other media.

Re: Next December

JamppaCK
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21.01.08 10:56:28 pm

Where do you live?? I bet you answered about your thinking.

Becouse Finland really doesn't are member of the NATO and even if we would be someday, so nobody will be with us, to help us.

And that's why becouse there is nothing special what could be useful for the other nations and countries in Finland.

I didn't say I blame weather guys and scientist.

If I am honest I think they are stupid becouse they try to find answer how to avoid global warming. And that is stupid becouse nobody can change anything of future even he/she would stand with his/hers head.

But God can show somekind of things to human.

Even we would go back to 1000 years we cant avoid to globar warming it is not possible to avoid. This is not any prophesy. If you think with you own brains you will figure it out as same like I have.

Besoue all countries should cut down over half of their production and developing countries should stop production at all if we would like to avoid global warming.

It was on the News.

So it is impossible to avoid it. And also bible says is too something for that global warming. Not that straight but unstraight Yes.
For the begining world wide weather will became one mess.

It was just while ago when there was snowing in the Italy. Think about that?
That really isn't normal weather of Italy.

Re: Next December

Flying Lizard
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21.01.08 11:02:06 pm

even if you weren't in any aliance at all, half of the world would protect you when an other country would invade you -.-

Know what? Normally I like such discusions, but since you just keep telling us the same thing over and over again, and don't accept any other opinions, I think it would be best to stop this. I can't say that I like your opiniions bt it's you're life, and you can decide what to belief, just keep us out of it ok?

Re: Next December

HW
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21.01.08 11:11:57 pm

JamppaCK has written

But God can show somekind of things to human.

JamppaCK has written

And also bible says is too something for that global warming.

If you want to do senseful religious conversation, you'll have to take a step back from what you believe and explain your thoughts in a way it appears credible and reasonable to other people. That is especially if you want to converse with people of other religions or philosophies than yours. But if you fail to even express your thoughts to people of same religion as yours, I guess I'll retreat from this thread here. Or even close it.
Being unreasonable is ok when you believe for yourself, but not when you want others to believe you.

JamppaCK has written

I didn't say I blame weather guys and scientist. frightened If I am honest I think they are stupid becouse they try to find answer how to avoid global warming. And that is stupid becouse nobody can change anything of future even he/she would stand with his/hers head.

Avoiding global warming is not the primary aim of scientists. Sure it is a big issue nowadays. But scientists are still people who just want to discover and explain whatever nature can offer.
As for avoiding global warming, I believe it is at least worth a try. It might probably fail,global warming might possibly be inevitable, but am I stupid for trying? I guess not.
People probably thought of the Third World War being quite near and even inevitable in times of Cold War, but somehow the mighty guys actually did manage not to break down the earth in its every single atom. That does show that trying to avoid catastrophes might be worth a shot.

Re: Next December

JamppaCK
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21.01.08 11:15:32 pm

It can be what ever religion but the spirit is not the same.

I seemed to undrestand you wrong HW. And Flying Lizard now you got a worng picture of that. I accept the other religions too they are Okay for me. You can believe where ever you want even grave stones Or smelling shoes.

heh

Yes It was my personal experience and I have more of them too, but propably you dont wanna hear.

There were anti-Christ spirit in Hilter.

But good night for everyone.

Here in Finland time is very much at the moment 00.15 am.

How is in Germany?

Re: Next December

Flying Lizard
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21.01.08 11:18:35 pm

you're gmt+2, we're +1, here it is 23:17

well, have a good night, too.

PS:
my problem was mainly that with you any theological discusion isn't posible.

Re: Next December

Lee
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22.01.08 04:12:27 am

JamppaCK has written

Where do you live?? I bet you answered about your thinking.

Becouse Finland really doesn't are member of the NATO and even if we would be someday, so nobody will be with us, to help us.

Give me one incentive that another country would have to invade Finland

Quote

I didn't say I blame weather guys and scientist.

There's 2 problems with this argument.

First of all, you're using ethical fallacy, appealling to an unknown authority. You state that your source is credible because it was on the News, well, last night I saw a news segment about how there is a way to stop global warming.

Premise:
Anything on the news is valid.

Conclusion:
Your point is valid, my point, being diametrically opposed to your statement is also valid. Thus you're argument is based on faulty premise, a fallacy

Secondly, you say that scientists should stop trying to prevent Global warming because we're not going to stop it. I find this statement the antithesis of Justice. Immanuel Kant once observed that any action can be and will be justified if its means can be justified, or means over ends. Now, here are the 2 scenario if we do use the premise set out by jamppack:

Case 1: Scientists do not try to prevent Global Warming, Drastic changes results in the struggle of Human Kind to survive

Case 2: Scientists do try to prevent Global Warming, but fails (according to jamppack) thus achieving the same result as case 1.

Both amounts to the same thing, however, which one is more justifiable? Clearly Case 2 because Kant dictated that because our means is justified, our ends will be also. Thus even though we do fail in both scenarios, case 2 is the much better option because inaction is less of a moral than an action for the name of a just cause.

Quote

So it is impossible to avoid it. And also bible says is too something for that global warming. Not that straight but unstraight Yes.
For the begining world wide weather will became one mess.

It was just while ago when there was snowing in the Italy. Think about that?
That really isn't normal weather of Italy.

It snowed in Baghdad a week ago, that's not normal. Guess what, it snowed there a century ago too, that still wasn't normal. It didn't snow right before the first or the second world war. That was normal. If abnormal weather dictates the end of the world or a major war that could result in the end of the world, then I believe that it should have came millions of years ago, I believe the weather back then was pretty abnormal.

Re: Next December

JamppaCK
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22.01.08 08:34:12 am

Good morning everyone

Heh sorry for some of my messages where I was little tight.

But I didn't got you believe me. You do not have to believe me. I tried to get you believe on something bigger.

Maybe it is worth to try maybe not.

I explained Jesus wrong kind of way to you. Here is something you propably don't have even thought about.

This is my opinion and you don't have to get angry me for this.

I think Jesus gave a gift for us. He died for us therefore we would get life on paradise.

And just believing and giving life to Jesus is enough to get paradise.

Yes of course there where abnormal weather too some years in 16th century times. But I think that abnormal weather appearance will become more and more regularly.

leegao you will see it on page one.

It's main target isn't Finland it is Norways oil source I think. And also I think that Norway isn't the main target of Russian. Main target would be Israel as almost everycountry has.

Sorry I may sound rude but I don't mean it. Becouse it is a culture to say everything straight and tough and tight in Finland.

News wont be permanent and things could change.

I try to tell you that Scientists try to avoid Global warming which is unnecessary and stupid becouse it is almost crystal clear that scientist will fail.

I almost forgot to answer that I don't make my relious opinions by media or movies. I just told that movie becouse they are really great.

edited 1×, last 22.01.08 11:33:07 am

Re: Next December

jeepohahyo
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22.01.08 02:36:14 pm

Quote

I think Jesus gave a gift for us.

Treat it as such.
Just relying on the salvation by Jesus who died for us and doing nothing by his own and saying: "Oh, the planet is getting warmer and warmer, but I needn't fear, God will either help us or at least it is his will" is a sin itself. You have to do something, even if it might be futile.

God said to the first humans that they are responsible for the Earth and all living things on it. We mustn't accept global warming and the death of many species who lose their natural habitat.

Mankind was faced with many dangers in the past. But everything worked out rather well so far. Why? Because we were able to do something and we at least tried

Just as a note: Even if it sounds so, I'm not really a Christ, but I'm learning these things at school (I have to do the religious education thingy) and I respect this belief.

edited 1×, last 22.01.08 02:38:36 pm

Re: Next December

munx
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22.01.08 02:36:37 pm

JamppaCK has written

leegao you will see it on page one.

It's main target isn't Finland it is Norways oil source I think. And also I think that Norway isn't the main target of Russian. Main target would be Israel as almost everycountry has.

Sorry I may sound rude but I don't mean it. Becouse it is a culture to say everything straight and tough and tight in Finland.

News wont be permanent and things could change.

I try to tell you that Scientists try to avoid Global warming which is unnecessary and stupid becouse it is almost crystal clear that scientist will fail.

Norway's oil? There is plenty of oil in Russia, why would they be EXPORTING it then?
And why would Russians attack Israel? Also HOW? It's not close you know...
Plus by attacking ANY country Russia would come back to the times of the Soviet Union: no friends and a collapsing financial system - the reason why the Soviet Union collapsed in the first place.

And why do you think that scientists will fail against global warming?
BIO-diesel, solar energy, nuclear energy, wind energy, and so on. I think scientists and NOT failing.

Re: Next December

Flying Lizard
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22.01.08 02:50:03 pm

I think the scientists won't fail, the one's who'll make all of it fail are the politicans and the industrials.

Re: Next December

JamppaCK
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22.01.08 03:55:32 pm

Dricker you know something but when God says to Jesus "Get my people here with me" And Jesus will do. But only them who believed and gave life to Jesus. They will leave from earth with Jesus. And also they who didn't believed so will stay on earth.
It is really good you respect this Belief and propably when you start seeing things what you have learned you maybe could gave your life to Jesus.

You are right Flying Lizard

Distance of between countries is not a problem. There is many ways to attack at nowadays as we should know.

Becouse Israel is Gods land. And almost everybody will became hate them just becouse of the Jesus name.

Becouse maybe the scientist will find the way to stop global warming but it is too tough to keep that way.
Every country can't cut down over half of their production. And also developing counrties can't do full stop of production.

Re: Next December

HW
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22.01.08 04:20:15 pm

JamppaCK has written

And almost everybody will became hate them just becouse of the Jesus name

Firstly, I don't see why this should happen in a world that is in its most parts Christian.
Secondly, Israel is primarily a Jewish country (although there are quite a lot of Christians and Muslims in Jerusalem as well). They don't have anything to do with Jesus except that he was of their religion.

Re: Next December

munx
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22.01.08 04:20:52 pm

JamppaCK has written

Why cut down half their production?
Just change the way of the production.

Re: Next December

HW
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22.01.08 04:32:08 pm

munx has written

Just change the way of the production.

Even though I don't agree with JamppaCK as for the impossibility of things, it is true that things like this are easier said than done. New means of production have to be produced in the first place as well. Doing this, however, again requires more industrial effort which you will have to bring up using old means of production.
That means, changing the way of production in a global manner will, at least in the beginning, have a large negative impact on environment and with it global warming.

Re: Next December

bizzl
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22.01.08 04:39:35 pm

JamppaCK has written

It is little bit hard to translate of Finnish bible to in English.
Becouse there has been said much of things little bit different way.

Like I said, the bible got translated far to often and over far to many steps to be the full truth.

JamppaCK has written

I thought they are trying to search truth so people would believe them either than the Gods word.

scientists search for the truth behind the things, but not because they want to convert religious people (actually, some of the greatest scientists were religious in some way)
but for the sake of the truth itself.

JamppaCK has written

It will become crystal clear for all of you someday in future. Propably about 5 years you all undrestand.

so it will start in five years. fine. If you would have read the full revelation you would know that we still get time to prove ourself (if it is necessary at all)

JamppaCK has written

By the way, what means Amd? And q.e.d.?

qued era demonstrantum = what was to be proven got proved

JamppaCK has written

Distance of between countries is not a problem. There is many ways to attack at nowadays as we should know.

Becouse Israel is Gods land. And almost everybody will became hate them just becouse of the Jesus name.

bullshit. There are even people who believe that the original Israel wasn't even located in palaestina

JamppaCK has written

Where do you live?? I bet you answered about your thinking.

Becouse Finland really doesn't are member of the NATO and even if we would be someday, so nobody will be with us, to help us.

Okay, so you aren't part of the NATO. You're still a EU member, which does set you under the protection of the WEU, a military suborganisation which germany is part of.
Fear us, not them

Let's be serious: there isn't any reason for russia to attack you, even if they actually want to take over norway. There much easier, cheaper and faster ways to get there

JamppaCK has written

And that's why becouse there is nothing special what could be useful for the other nations and countries in Finland.

you got much stuff. mobiles, and webbrowsers, and much landscape.
You should be more scared of a tourist invasion

JamppaCK has written

I didn't say I blame weather guys and scientist.

sure you did:

JamppaCK has written

In future you will see things you cant explain. When someting bad happens you blame some scientist and also some weather scientist. Becouse they seemed to be wrong.

JamppaCK has written

The future isn't planned. It's made by us.
Why else would we be made with versatile hands, a sharp mind and a free will?

JamppaCK has written

Even we would go back to 1000 years we cant avoid to globar warming it is not possible to avoid. This is not any prophesy. If you think with you own brains you will figure it out as same like I have.

I did, but probably I got to a different sollution than you

JamppaCK has written

Besoue all countries should cut down over half of their production and developing countries should stop production at all if we would like to avoid global warming.

that won't stop it, either. It already was much warmer once a long time ago, it will be again, and there is no problem with it. it's our media that makes so much panic because of it.

JamppaCK has written

It was on the News.

that doesn't make it true

JamppaCK has written

So it is impossible to avoid it. And also bible says is too something for that global warming. Not that straight but unstraight Yes.
For the begining world wide weather will became one mess.

Weather always has been a mess. That's the only stable state it can be in

JamppaCK has written

It was just while ago when there was snowing in the Italy. Think about that?
That really isn't normal weather of Italy.

sure? snow is pretty common in the northern parts of italy

JamppaCK has written

It can be what ever religion but the spirit is not the same.

there isn't even common spirit in christianity

JamppaCK has written

There were anti-Christ spirit in Hilter.

that wasn't hws point, anyway

What he wanted to tell you is that anyone could came an claim to be a prophet.

sry for the long post, but you post far to fast for me, and I had lectures and an exam today

Re: Next December

JTK
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22.01.08 06:14:42 pm

well i take a first place.. I have to do a book presentation. or something like that. and the best thing is i haven't even chosen the book.

Re: Next December

JamppaCK
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22.01.08 06:15:08 pm

Yeah. your message is almost one page.

hehh

It wasn't their religion it is.

But not everyone of them has that religion.

HW:
""""""Even though I don't agree with JamppaCK as for the impossibility of things, it is true that things like this are easier said than done. New means of production have to be produced in the first place as well.....""""""

It could be true.

That's why they should cut down over half ot the all production on the world otherwise is possible that temperature could rise too high of world wide.

On the news has said if world wide temperature rises over 2 Celcius degrees it is damagafull for all nature and whole earth.
And every factory will vitiate whole atmosphere.

Bizzl:
""""Like I said, the bible got translated......"""
I think it is better than nothing.

Note: I said propably. I mean I don't know exactly right time of that as we all konw that I am not the God. But I as sure he will know when it starts.

""""bullshit. There are even people who believe... """

It is the thing of own opinion.

Oh how do you know something about Finland?

No I didn't say.

I mean that the people who must to stay in earth will blame scientist and weather guys.

Terrorists aren't a big threat for Finland yet.
I'm sure you got different solution.

I am sure it will be much more worse than ever before.

Of course it is common on the mountains.
But not in places where really had not to snow.

Sorry for long message but I tried to answer every single one of things where should answer.

he heh

edited 1×, last 22.01.08 06:34:57 pm

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