English Lag Compensation kills CS2D

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24.07.17 06:10:38 pm
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Quattro
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@user Andrez:
Your nose is so brown. Can I call you little browny?
24.07.17 06:34:39 pm
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Zeik
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I'm yet to see any explanation of why it's an advantage for high ping players over low ping players.
24.07.17 08:02:33 pm
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SANTER
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Admit that they never learned to play with high ping
24.07.17 08:17:12 pm
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DC
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I honestly still don't see why but according to http://www.lagcompensation.com/ - which is of course just very stupid advertisement and you shouldn't take it seriously but it's user Quattro's only "proof" - lag compensation is very bad for low ping players. And apparently that's true for the LC in ALL games!

If it's so incredibly bad, why do all the games have it? Ever thought about that? And why should CS2D be the only game where it gets removed?

It's crucial ESPECIALLY for CS2D because this is a game played a lot by people with low end systems and low end internet connections.

So no, I still don't see any good point to remove LC. Please just disable it on your server(s) or convince server owners to disable it but I won't remove that feature from the game and I won't change the default settings.

I gave you settings. Just use them. And if you fail to convince server owners to change that setting then there's probably a reason for that...
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24.07.17 09:26:37 pm
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VaiN
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@user Zeik: I've never claimed it gives high ping players an advantage over low ping players. I've pointed out that it improves the perceived experience for high ping players and degrades the perceived experience of low ping players. If anything, that just leaves both at a disadvantage.

The keywords here, as you hopefully can tell, are perceived expererience. This is the gamplay perspective of the player - the difference between what they see on their screen, and what action the server takes.

Let me try yet again to explain..
How LC impacts everyone >


@user DC: I fully understand why you have it enabled by default, and I support that decision. And I appreciate that it's possible to change through server settings. LC is great to have when everyone has less than 100 ping, because the difference is subtle enough that it doesn't take away from the experience, and actually does make it more fair for everyone.

But trying to compensate for players who have more than 200ms difference in ping is madness, and it's impossible for it not to degrade the experience for someone. That doesn't change anything, though. It still needs to be enabled by default. Which makes all of this debating rather moot.

What's important is that server hosts understand the difference, and adjust their ping limits accordingly. But there in lies the problem. We can't just limit the pings, because there aren't enough players. And so it's basically a catch-22. Damned if you LC, damned if you don't.

LC itself isn't really the issue, It's the lack of players. But all of the servers allowing unlimited ping, and enabling a high level of LC, degrades the experience for those whom it shouldn't. And that doesn't help boost the playerbase. I believe that was the OP's concern.

This is a big problem with no currently viable solution, outside of a large scale promotion campaign. I'm still grasping to the hope that Steam can attract more players, but I fear it would be a trickle at best. But that's all a discussion for another topic.
24.07.17 10:26:27 pm
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Zeik
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The default value for LC is 200ms. You shouldn't be able to notice any difference... If someone "misses" by 10 pixels you can be certain he is shooting at you.
24.07.17 10:30:46 pm
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Yates
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user Zeik has written:
you can be certain he was* shooting at you.

Fixed that for you.
04.08.17 09:19:55 am
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Quattro
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WLAUxslWwM

I don't understand how people are so blind to the obvious fact LC does not make things fair unless it works flawlessly.
My post got deleted by butt hurt DC so I moved this video here for an example
04.08.17 09:30:12 am
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Fraizeraust
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user Quattro has written:
My post got deleted by butt hurt DC so I moved this video here for an example

Deleted? thread offtopic Fair gameplay is still open for further replies as you can see it, DC just moved that thread to the appropriate section.
04.08.17 09:34:29 am
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SQ
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@user Quattro: For damn sake dear Lithuanian, please explain in detail how then lag compensation should work and which exactly algorithm should be implemented?

PUBG lag compensation is client-sided which is absurd (EVERYONE knows that, it looks like except you), I have played it too. You clearly don't understand and a thing about this. Just not worth for developers to comment or take in account for what you say.
04.08.17 09:37:11 am
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DC
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Open your eyes please and stop the wrong accusations already. This forum is as fair as things can be. Nothing gets removed without a rock solid reason. thread offtopic Fair gameplay is still here and I even posted there to explain the situation.

Again: CS2D does not work like this at all. CS2D does NOT have a client sided hit detection. It is using a proper server sided detection with an EXTREMELY LIMITED (max 200 ms by default) backwards calculation. This is the very same technique which the BEST and MOST POPULAR multiplayer games are using. Including the most played hardcore multiplayer e-sports titles like CS:GO. Do you really think that all these games are wrong?

Feel free to go to the Playerunknown's Battleground forum to complain about the horrible game code there. But CS2D is nothing like this so it makes entirely no sense to complain about it here.

This is like going to a Mc Donalds forum and complaining about the quality of the latest Burger King product.

You're the one who is "butt hurt" - for a reason which only exists in your mind.
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04.08.17 11:49:45 am
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apex2d
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user DC has written:
You're the one who is "butt hurt" - for a reason which only exists in your mind.


what a roast
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04.08.17 02:41:52 pm
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Quattro
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user SQ has written:
@user Quattro: For damn sake dear Lithuanian, please explain in detail how then lag compensation should work and which exactly algorithm should be implemented?

PUBG lag compensation is client-sided which is absurd (EVERYONE knows that, it looks like except you), I have played it too. You clearly don't understand and a thing about this. Just not worth for developers to comment or take in account for what you say.


So my dear lithuanian, if LC is not client sided and my Internet stutters, according to you, it is impossible to reproduce what is happening in that video on a smaller scale?
04.08.17 06:04:15 pm
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SQ
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@user Quattro: Facepalm... It's a question I cannot answer because it's too dumb.
04.08.17 06:51:45 pm
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apex2d
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i think this is why dc never wanna develop cs2d, because every shit being added someone will just hate it
i really dont mind about lc at all
really
dont
mind
lc
at
all
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04.08.17 06:55:59 pm
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Masea
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user apex2d has written:
i think this is why dc never wanna develop cs2d
Stranded III is why user DC has no time on CS2D updating.

I don't think user DC cares this kind of uncertain wants or issues.
edited 1×, last 04.08.17 06:58:40 pm
Create your UI easy and fast: UI Framework | Go deeper into the darkness and test your bravery: file cs2d Outlast II Modification (28)
04.08.17 06:57:51 pm
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SQ
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@user Masea: @user apex2d: Meanwhile CS2D this year is getting the biggest update so far... best community ever.
04.08.17 06:59:28 pm
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Masea
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@user SQ: I never said the opposite anyway. Do not get me wrong, dude. Mostly you do the updates, don't you?
Create your UI easy and fast: UI Framework | Go deeper into the darkness and test your bravery: file cs2d Outlast II Modification (28)
04.08.17 07:14:47 pm
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apex2d
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user SQ has written:
@user Masea: @user apex2d: Meanwhile CS2D this year is getting the biggest update so far... best community ever.


i know cs2d from my school teacher and i played with my cousin it was 2008 tho good memories
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04.08.17 07:29:56 pm
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DC
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I still do update CS2D. I just made a new scoreboard and voting system just to name my latest efforts. Before that I even ran a time consuming Steam Greenlight campaign and invested days making a new trailer. This is off-topic though.

This thread seems to be about randomly ranting about lag compensation without any good reason. And apparently some people here think that CS2D does essential hit checks on client side. Which of course isn't the case.
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